Long may you continue to rant if it results in brilliant articles like this! I have re-tweeted it, put it on Facebook, our company newsletters and sent emails out with the link on too. And I shall continue to promote it through our work in The Happiness Foundation and The Lifelong Learning Company. Through our not-for-profit, The Happiness Foundation, we receive NHS funding to run courses in partnership with GP surgeries, Sure Start, Teenage Mother’s projects, special needs projects, and in schools. These are the kinds of messages we share in our communities and we are making such a difference Mark and Roger, as are you both. Wishing you continued success in all you do! Kath T x
Well it’s a case of Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right, here I am, Stuck….
I have been taking quite a small dose of Sertraline for a few years now and I have to admit that it has made a positive difference at some desperate times but it certainly does not stop me getting depressed. It does, however, make me feel not entirely myself. I feel numbed, buffered yes, but numbed. I don’t like this but I am afraid to stop now. I am an insulin dependent diabetic and as such, told that I am prone to depression. My Diabetes Consultant claimed that SSRI’s are proven to work for people with chronic illnesses. I had rejected other pills that I was encouraged to take, such as Prozac, because it felt like being on legal Ecstasy and not at all ‘normal’ - I have heard of people who ask to go on it because they describe it as ‘rocket fuel’ and enjoy it recreationally.
A friend of mine whose a Psychiatric Nurse and Cognitive Behavioural Therapist had this to say:-
He makes some good points but the style of his writing shows that he’s partisan and doesn’t clarify whether he’s researching his views exhaustively (holocaust denyers make some good points that can appear intellectually rigourous, but that doesn’t mean they are intelectually rigorous. the way to find out is assess their ideas intellectually rigourously oneself - but that takes time and effort; that way madness lies). None of his references include well respected scholarly journals.
Also he’s arguing something of a paper tiger (if that’s the right expression). Nobody subscribes to the ‘biomedical model’ these days. People subscribe to the ‘biopsychosocial model’. We get depressed for all manner of reasons, these may relate to our genetics, but they relate more to what happened in our lives (what we learnt) in our past, what’s happening in our lives now, what we’re doing and the way we tend to think and what we believe. When we get depressed out biology changes a bit. It can change a lot. If things change depression may change. If we can change for ourselves what is happening in our lives we may be able to change depression. If we can learn to think in different ways we may be able to change depression. If we can reverse some of the biological changes that may have arisen as a result of depression, that may help. (He is saying that biological features aren’t the cause of depression - well no one’s saying they are.)
Clinicians feel strongly that adps can be helpful for people with biological features of depression - eg tjose with marked changes in sleep, appetite, energy levels ?libido. A lot of sudies have shown efficacy, a lot were done by drug companies; a lot weren’t. I believe a recent big metaanalysis showed lack of efficacy above placebo effect. Clinicians still believe that adps can be helpful in the above circumstance. I took adps once when i was really depressed. After the predicted amount of time I experienced a profound improvement and wrote my book Fruitcake. In similar circumstances I would want to take them again.
Nicely written informative article that LAY people can understand, nothing of the mumbo jumbo gobbledy gook “scientific” speak,also known as Psychiatrese. As they say, “BS baffles brains”
In (medical) science proof must be demonstrated, by SHOWING the actual proof and NOT by the assumption of proof due to any reason. For instance, it is Not science to say that your mother had a specific gene, therefore you will also have it. The spesific gene must be SHOWN to exist in you. It is most certainly Not scientific to claim that, medication makes the “condition” disappear, therefore the condition MUST have existed in the first place! It is much like claiming: After I have had a few drinks I make a fool of myself, therefore I MUST be a fool in the first place.
Biopsychiatry is fraught with such examples, particularly where it tries to prove the “disease” listed in their DSM, like depression, ADHD, Bipolar etc.
Claire Knight’s friend says that the author is guilty of not producing respected and scholarly references, but I dare say that the article was not intended as a scientific study. The references to other books etc. (particularly Ben Goldacre’s “Bad Science”) is merely an indicator that other authors HAVE indeed researched this topic. If the scientific articles need to be produced to substantiate these claims they most certainly could.
What is of importance, though, is that we need to clearly understand that it was the pharmaceutical industry and Psychiatry that claimed proof of the chemical imbalance model, the genetic pre-disposition model, ALL of the listed disease in the DSM, including depression AND it’s treatment. We may, no, we MUST insist that they (Psychiatry and the Pharmaceutical industry) provide Scientific proof. REAL proof, and NOT the tainted scandalous distorted “proof” of how Prozac got FDA approval.
Here are links to some further reading: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a4yV1nYxCGoA&pos=10
Thanks to the author for an informative and revealing article. Well done!
and http://www.ahrp.org/cms/content/view/653/109/.
hi think it can be a bit dangerous to tell people on anti depressant they dont work there are people who need them your talking about reactive depression which is mild and can be helped by cognative therapy and relaxtion etc real clinical depression is not easy to over come i have personal experience ive tried cognative therapy hypnosis meditation none really worked, only with the help of anti depressants have i been able to cope there must be a medical aspect to depression for some people such as bi polar post natal depession people who have under active thyrod can get very ill will with depression till treated i would like not to take anti depressants and have tried to stop but my depression comes back after a few weeks of stopping them there not perfect but your mood in my opion does become more even and thinking become more normal and balanced. ps the older anti depressants had more side affects i love to be proved wrong regards matt
well i think it is big business, and something should be done so more lives are not ruined by medications that make people unknowingly sicker and keep them unwell.What right do the people who profit from drug companies have to be making money from people who need help and keeping people sick obviously benefit them more.At least people who simply go to a doctor and would like to try medication have an option as to whether they feel it helps them, the same cannot be said for psychiatric patients in hospitals they have no choice.Anti psychotics are the most life stifling drugs around and do they help anyone? only people who are happy with a diagnosis so they dont have to face why they are sick and therfore be cured.Psychologists should be more important in pschiatric wards and less emphasis on medications.It would be ideal to make them optional.
Kathryn Temple on March 28 said:
Long may you continue to rant if it results in brilliant articles like this! I have re-tweeted it, put it on Facebook, our company newsletters and sent emails out with the link on too. And I shall continue to promote it through our work in The Happiness Foundation and The Lifelong Learning Company. Through our not-for-profit, The Happiness Foundation, we receive NHS funding to run courses in partnership with GP surgeries, Sure Start, Teenage Mother’s projects, special needs projects, and in schools. These are the kinds of messages we share in our communities and we are making such a difference Mark and Roger, as are you both. Wishing you continued success in all you do! Kath T x
Claire Knights on April 01 said:
Well it’s a case of Clowns to the left of me, Jokers to the right, here I am, Stuck….
I have been taking quite a small dose of Sertraline for a few years now and I have to admit that it has made a positive difference at some desperate times but it certainly does not stop me getting depressed. It does, however, make me feel not entirely myself. I feel numbed, buffered yes, but numbed. I don’t like this but I am afraid to stop now. I am an insulin dependent diabetic and as such, told that I am prone to depression. My Diabetes Consultant claimed that SSRI’s are proven to work for people with chronic illnesses. I had rejected other pills that I was encouraged to take, such as Prozac, because it felt like being on legal Ecstasy and not at all ‘normal’ - I have heard of people who ask to go on it because they describe it as ‘rocket fuel’ and enjoy it recreationally.
A friend of mine whose a Psychiatric Nurse and Cognitive Behavioural Therapist had this to say:-
He makes some good points but the style of his writing shows that he’s partisan and doesn’t clarify whether he’s researching his views exhaustively (holocaust denyers make some good points that can appear intellectually rigourous, but that doesn’t mean they are intelectually rigorous. the way to find out is assess their ideas intellectually rigourously oneself - but that takes time and effort; that way madness lies). None of his references include well respected scholarly journals.
Also he’s arguing something of a paper tiger (if that’s the right expression). Nobody subscribes to the ‘biomedical model’ these days. People subscribe to the ‘biopsychosocial model’. We get depressed for all manner of reasons, these may relate to our genetics, but they relate more to what happened in our lives (what we learnt) in our past, what’s happening in our lives now, what we’re doing and the way we tend to think and what we believe. When we get depressed out biology changes a bit. It can change a lot. If things change depression may change. If we can change for ourselves what is happening in our lives we may be able to change depression. If we can learn to think in different ways we may be able to change depression. If we can reverse some of the biological changes that may have arisen as a result of depression, that may help. (He is saying that biological features aren’t the cause of depression - well no one’s saying they are.)
Clinicians feel strongly that adps can be helpful for people with biological features of depression - eg tjose with marked changes in sleep, appetite, energy levels ?libido. A lot of sudies have shown efficacy, a lot were done by drug companies; a lot weren’t. I believe a recent big metaanalysis showed lack of efficacy above placebo effect. Clinicians still believe that adps can be helpful in the above circumstance. I took adps once when i was really depressed. After the predicted amount of time I experienced a profound improvement and wrote my book Fruitcake. In similar circumstances I would want to take them again.
Schalk Burger on April 18 said:
Nicely written informative article that LAY people can understand, nothing of the mumbo jumbo gobbledy gook “scientific” speak,also known as Psychiatrese. As they say, “BS baffles brains”
In (medical) science proof must be demonstrated, by SHOWING the actual proof and NOT by the assumption of proof due to any reason. For instance, it is Not science to say that your mother had a specific gene, therefore you will also have it. The spesific gene must be SHOWN to exist in you. It is most certainly Not scientific to claim that, medication makes the “condition” disappear, therefore the condition MUST have existed in the first place! It is much like claiming: After I have had a few drinks I make a fool of myself, therefore I MUST be a fool in the first place.
Biopsychiatry is fraught with such examples, particularly where it tries to prove the “disease” listed in their DSM, like depression, ADHD, Bipolar etc.
Claire Knight’s friend says that the author is guilty of not producing respected and scholarly references, but I dare say that the article was not intended as a scientific study. The references to other books etc. (particularly Ben Goldacre’s “Bad Science”) is merely an indicator that other authors HAVE indeed researched this topic. If the scientific articles need to be produced to substantiate these claims they most certainly could.
What is of importance, though, is that we need to clearly understand that it was the pharmaceutical industry and Psychiatry that claimed proof of the chemical imbalance model, the genetic pre-disposition model, ALL of the listed disease in the DSM, including depression AND it’s treatment. We may, no, we MUST insist that they (Psychiatry and the Pharmaceutical industry) provide Scientific proof. REAL proof, and NOT the tainted scandalous distorted “proof” of how Prozac got FDA approval.
Here are links to some further reading: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=a4yV1nYxCGoA&pos=10
Thanks to the author for an informative and revealing article. Well done!
and http://www.ahrp.org/cms/content/view/653/109/.
matthew peters on July 27 said:
hi think it can be a bit dangerous to tell people on anti depressant they dont work there are people who need them your talking about reactive depression which is mild and can be helped by cognative therapy and relaxtion etc real clinical depression is not easy to over come i have personal experience ive tried cognative therapy hypnosis meditation none really worked, only with the help of anti depressants have i been able to cope there must be a medical aspect to depression for some people such as bi polar post natal depession people who have under active thyrod can get very ill will with depression till treated i would like not to take anti depressants and have tried to stop but my depression comes back after a few weeks of stopping them there not perfect but your mood in my opion does become more even and thinking become more normal and balanced. ps the older anti depressants had more side affects i love to be proved wrong regards matt
brooke on August 10 said:
well i think it is big business, and something should be done so more lives are not ruined by medications that make people unknowingly sicker and keep them unwell.What right do the people who profit from drug companies have to be making money from people who need help and keeping people sick obviously benefit them more.At least people who simply go to a doctor and would like to try medication have an option as to whether they feel it helps them, the same cannot be said for psychiatric patients in hospitals they have no choice.Anti psychotics are the most life stifling drugs around and do they help anyone? only people who are happy with a diagnosis so they dont have to face why they are sick and therfore be cured.Psychologists should be more important in pschiatric wards and less emphasis on medications.It would be ideal to make them optional.